astroprogs said: Alter definitely has less qualms about completely slaughtering an opponent if that's what she herself thought it was necessary to. She's not someone you can reason with, only order with an absolute magic binding. Saber, on the other hand, did it in secret and had the mental capacity to listen and change. Alter is way less apologetic about it. Alter is more ruthless,yeah,but not that much.Saber's done similar shit before when she was alive,after all. I wouldn't call Alter bloodthirsty either. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: Alter is more ruthless,yeah,but not that much.Saber's done similar shit before when she was alive,after all. I wouldn't call Alter bloodthirsty either. She's way more ruthless than Saber though. Saber thought seriously about halting her quest for the grail to help Shirou in UBW and went into a maddening regret after killing Shirou because she entertained the thought of wanting the grail at any cost for a fraction of a second in Fate. I don't see Alter doing any of that. Saber normally doesn't give a shit when it came to her issues as the ruler. Alter just doesn't give a shit. Period. |
| Me thinks,Lancelot would respect Alter more than Saber. |
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astroprogs said: She's way more ruthless than Saber though. Saber thought seriously about halting her quest for the grail to help Shirou in UBW and went into a maddening regret after killing Shirou because she entertained the thought of wanting the grail at any cost for a fraction of a second in Fate. I don't see Alter doing any of that. Saber normally doesn't give a shit when it came to her issues as the ruler. Alter just doesn't give a shit. Period. That's true actually,i guess. Alter does show the part of Saber that persists in being heartless,so it'd only make sense. She's not really bloodthirsty though.Like I don't see her going out of her way to get into fights and kill people,because she feels like it.That's what I was originally saying. laidellent said: Me thinks,Lancelot would respect Alter more than Saber. He'd finally get stepped on like he'd always wanted,but considering he's admitted to loving the latter more than Guinevere,i don't see it. |
astroprogs said: DamnThatsTheSpot said: Alter is more ruthless,yeah,but not that much.Saber's done similar shit before when she was alive,after all. I wouldn't call Alter bloodthirsty either. She's way more ruthless than Saber though. She's not. You keep forgetting that they're the same person. No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. Also, she let Shirou win/live a couple of times so, y'know... Saber thought seriously about halting her quest for the grail to help Shirou in UBW and went into a maddening regret after killing Shirou because she entertained the thought of wanting the grail at any cost for a fraction of a second in Fate. I don't see Alter doing any of that. Well, Alter let him kill her in SLH. Saber normally doesn't give a shit when it came to her issues as the ruler. Alter just doesn't give a shit. Period. But she does. You're treating them as two completely different people, when they aren't. We don't have enough references in terms of Alter, but we know that she's not the opposite of vanilla Saber that you seem to speak about. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
laidellent said: Kiritsugu would probably get along with her better, too.Me thinks,Lancelot would respect Alter more than Saber. |
mira-nyan said: No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. And she doesn't care how she accomplishes her goals,so long as she does. Which makes her ruthless. |
mira-nyan said: She's not. You keep forgetting that they're the same person. No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. That...kind of is the definition of "ruthless" though... |
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DamnThatsTheSpot said: She's not really bloodthirsty though.Like I don't see her going out of her way to get into fights and kill people,because she feels like it.That's what I was originally saying. Yeah, you're right. Alter wouldn't waste energy on killing anyone if there was no need to. She's efficient like that. It was due to her fight in SLH that i had that view of her. She was facing Shirou and all her movements and gestures were completely geared towards killing him with no signs of hesitation, only murderous intent. She certainly didn't enjoy the killing, but she didn't really have any other emotion while doing it either. mira-nyan said: She's not. You keep forgetting that they're the same person. They're the same person in the same sense that Fate Shirou and HF Shirou are the same person. There's a common base there, but there's a fundamental change that makes them different people. mira-nyan said: No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. Also, she let Shirou win/live a couple of times so, y'know... That's literally what it means to be ruthless. She didn't "let" him do any thing. She just obeyed the Shadow's order. mira-nyan said: Well, Alter let him kill her in SLH. Um... No, she didn't? Shirou ended the fight in a "draw" fair and square before dying from his wounds. It was essentially "If you wanna defeat me, do it while I'm too wounded to slit your throat. You can't? Oh well. I win." mira-nyan said: But she does. You're treating them as two completely different people, when they aren't. We don't have enough references in terms of Alter, but we know that she's not the opposite of vanilla Saber that you seem to speak about. She's not the complete opposite, but Alter most definitely showed some character traits that Saber never had. |
| Whether Alter let Shirou win in SLH or not is not something i want to get into but she did show more than indifference during that fight and she didn't go all out either."Is that all I am to you?" and "no,you've always been strong" and whatnot. astroprogs said: She's not the complete opposite, but Alter most definitely showed some character traits that Saber never had. Not exactly While alive, Altria did not fell into the path of evil even once, but she too had doubts, inner conflicts, hatred towards herself and grief towards the surroundings. This figure is something that raised such issues to the surface by means of a curse and caused her "policy" to go inverse. She's basically Saber's darker emotions having been brought up due to the curse of the grail.But those are traits that have always been there. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: Whether Alter let Shirou win in SLH or not is not something i want to get into but she did show more than indifference during that fight and she didn't go all out either."Is that all I am to you?" and "no,you've always been strong" and whatnot. That doesn't really mean anything, though. Alter definitely liked Shirou, and she definitely wouldn't think twice about killing him if it was necessary. Alter isn't an emotionless robot. She's just extremely ruthless and goal-driven. DamnThatsTheSpot said: Not exactly While alive, Altria did not fell into the path of evil even once, but she too had doubts, inner conflicts, hatred towards herself and grief towards the surroundings. This figure is something that raised such issues to the surface by means of a curse and caused her "policy" to go inverse. She's basically Saber's darker emotions having been brought up due to the curse of the grail.But those are traits that have always been there. Yeah, I worded that poorly, you're right. |
astroprogs said: That doesn't really mean anything, though. Alter definitely liked Shirou, and she definitely wouldn't think twice about killing him if it was necessary. Well she tells him to knock off with the CQC fighting since it's not gonna work and to find another way. She lets him catch his breath and recover his strength after their short skirmish and she didin't use her NP,which is her strongest card. All this despite being ordered to kill anyone who tries to interfere.(Which Shirou did attempt) This leads me to believe she wasn't just " geared towards killing him with no signs of hesitation, only murderous intent." like you said. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: astroprogs said: That doesn't really mean anything, though. Alter definitely liked Shirou, and she definitely wouldn't think twice about killing him if it was necessary. Well she tells him to knock off with the CQC fighting since it's not gonna work and to find another way. She lets him catch his breath and recover his strength after their short skirmish and she didin't use her NP,which is her strongest card. All this despite being ordered to kill anyone who tries to interfere.(Which Shirou did attempt) This leads me to believe she wasn't just " geared towards killing him with no signs of hesitation, only murderous intent." like you said. That's what i refered to before when i said "She was more stoic than usual, and that actually added more to the moments when she showed these emotions. It wasn't far removed from Fate's "strong king showing weakness", but done with more elegance and subtlety." She IS going to kill him and there's no one who can yield her from that thought. Giving him a room to breathe and dropping pointers is her way of showing affection, not letting him win. |
OneTrueBaita said: mira-nyan said: She's not. You keep forgetting that they're the same person. No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. That...kind of is the definition of "ruthless" though... I'll get you a dictionary for Christmas, don't worry. DamnThatsTheSpot said: mira-nyan said: No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. And she doesn't care how she accomplishes her goals,so long as she does. Which makes her ruthless. She does, tho - I doubt she'd destroy Britain, therefore putting it out of it's misery and making the people happy because they don't have to suffer anymore. It's getting her goal, but it's certainly not a method she'd use. astroprogs said: mira-nyan said: She's not. You keep forgetting that they're the same person. They're the same person in the same sense that Fate Shirou and HF Shirou are the same person. There's a common base there, but there's a fundamental change that makes them different people. This is where you're getting shit wrong. mira-nyan said: No, she isn't ruthless, she just get things that needs to get done done. Also, she let Shirou win/live a couple of times so, y'know... That's literally what it means to be ruthless. She didn't "let" him do any thing. She just obeyed the Shadow's order. Um... No, she didn't? Shirou ended the fight in a "draw" fair and square before dying from his wounds. It was essentially "If you wanna defeat me, do it while I'm too wounded to slit your throat. You can't? Oh well. I win."  She may not be the most compassionate person in the world, but the thing about Alter is that, although she's corrupt, she still holds on to her ideals and therefore is not the ruthless killing machine with no care for others, that you seem to imply. >.> mira-nyan said: But she does. You're treating them as two completely different people, when they aren't. We don't have enough references in terms of Alter, but we know that she's not the opposite of vanilla Saber that you seem to speak about. She's not the complete opposite, but Alter most definitely showed some character traits that Saber never had. Like what? astroprogs said: Alter isn't an emotionless robot. She's just extremely ruthless and goal-driven. Of course, it depends on who/what she's being ruthless to/about. For example, if she showed no mercy to her foes, that'd be pretty normal for both vanilla Saber and Alter; if she was ruthless to her allies, then that's another thing entirely. Btw, you just said the same thing, using different words. >.> |
The sun is a deadly laser |
| I disagree with that(and your view of Fate actually),especially since she also said this But like I said,I don't wanna argue about that right now,so maybe some other time ,lol |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: (and your view of Fate actually) Let's fite. Rite here. Rite now. I disagree with that,especially since she also said this But like I said,I don't wanna argue about that right now,so maybe some other time ,lol I can't tell what you're disagreeing with, but mkay. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: OneTrueBaita said: That...kind of is the definition of "ruthless" though... I'll get you a dictionary for Christmas, don't worry. Ah, best you buy one for yourself first though. Ruthless = having no compassion or pity for others. Saber Alter gets things done regardless of whoever is in her way. Aka ruthless. |
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mira-nyan said: This is where you're getting shit wrong. How so? mira-nyan said: Um... No, she didn't? Shirou ended the fight in a "draw" fair and square before dying from his wounds. It was essentially "If you wanna defeat me, do it while I'm too wounded to slit your throat. You can't? Oh well. I win." She may not be the most compassionate person in the world, but the thing about Alter is that, although she's corrupt, she still holds on to her ideals and therefore is not the ruthless killing machine with no care for others, that you seem to imply. >.> mira-nyan said: Btw, you just said the same thing, using different words. >.> I know. I never said or implied that she has no care for others. I said that this doesn't factor much in her decision making making her ruthless. Her feeling pity didn't sway her one bit to do something else other than kill Shirou and come back to kill Rin. mira-nyan said: Like what? I'll refer you to this post: mira-nyan said: Of course, it depends on who/what she's being ruthless to/about. For example, if she showed no mercy to her foes, that'd be pretty normal for both vanilla Saber and Alter; if she was ruthless to her allies, then that's another thing entirely. Shirou and Rin ARE supposed to be her allies. I'll once again refer you to this post: THIS is called being ruthless to your allies. |
OneTrueBaita said: mira-nyan said: I'll get you a dictionary for Christmas, don't worry. Ah, best you buy one for yourself first though. Ruthless = having no compassion or pity for others. Saber Alter gets things done regardless of whoever is in her way. Aka ruthless. >The word 'pity' was explicitly stated in my quote above. >Pity and compassion are synonyms. I'll make sure to get you a high-class one, dw. |
mira-pyonDec 4, 2015 2:21 PM
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: I can't tell what you're disagreeing with, but mkay. That post wasn't directed to you,lol |
mira-nyan said: >The word 'pity' was explicitly stated in my quote above. >Pity and compassion are synonyms. Feeling pity is not the same as expressing pity, though. Being "ruthless" is only correlative to "actions". One does not "think" ruthlessly, but "act" ruthlessly. DamnThatsTheSpot said: mira-nyan said: I can't tell what you're disagreeing with, but mkay. That wasn't directed to you,lol I thought that was weird as well lol. I'll respond shortly. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: mira-nyan said: I can't tell what you're disagreeing with, but mkay. That post wasn't directed to you,lol You can't blame me - no quote, no anything. >.> astroprogs said: mira-nyan said: This is where you're getting shit wrong. How so? Fate Shirou and HF Shirou are opposites; the difference between Alter and vanilla Saber is that some traits Saber had have been amplified(which is what Angry Manjuu does best). Two different things. I know. I never said or implied that she has no care for others. I said that this doesn't factor much in her decision making making her ruthless. Her feeling pity didn't sway her one bit to do something else other than kill Shirou and come back to kill Rin. Ruthlessness has nothing to do with decision making, tho. It's just her mentality - see Baita's post above. I'll refer you to this post: > Your argument was about Alter having traits vanilla Saber didn't have >"But those traits have always been there". Mkay. mira-nyan said: Of course, it depends on who/what she's being ruthless to/about. For example, if she showed no mercy to her foes, that'd be pretty normal for both vanilla Saber and Alter; if she was ruthless to her allies, then that's another thing entirely. Shirou and Rin ARE supposed to be her allies. I'll once again refer you to this post: THIS is called being ruthless to your allies. She joined the dark side. They're literally enemies. She held compassion for her literal enemies. astroprogs said: Feeling pity is not the same as expressing pity, I'm not getting your point. That wasn't the argument. One of the things Saber is best at is masking her emotions - they're still there. though. Being "ruthless" is only correlative to "actions". One does not "think" ruthlessly, but "act" ruthlessly. Lol, no. One would need to think with no compassion before they act with no compassion. Either way, it stems off of mentality. Can't say there's a dictionary out there that says the word 'ruthlessly' can only be used in the context of actions. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: I disagree with that(and your view of Fate actually),especially since she also said this But like I said,I don't wanna argue about that right now,so maybe some other time ,lol This is her showing affection as well. If Alter wanted him to win, there would've been no SLH ending. She wouldn't have pushed him to the point of breaking like she did. My view of Fate might take pages to discuss as well, so i agree about leaving it at that lol. |
astroprogs said: DamnThatsTheSpot said: I disagree with that(and your view of Fate actually),especially since she also said this But like I said,I don't wanna argue about that right now,so maybe some other time ,lol This is her showing affection as well. If Alter wanted him to win, there would've been no SLH ending. She wouldn't have pushed him to the point of breaking like she did. My view of Fate might take pages to discuss as well, so i agree about leaving it at that lol. She wanted him to win so badly.  She even used the magic word. This is against the person that she is supposedly ruthless to. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: Fate Shirou and HF Shirou are opposites; the difference between Alter and vanilla Saber is that some traits Saber had have been amplified(which is what Angry Manjuu does best). Two different things. Fate Shirou didn't grow his "living for others" mentality over night, neither did HF Shirou with his "I must do it for love". Both Shirous had these character traits, but they each chose to follow one or the other. And both Shirous are far from being opposites BTW. They're the same person until it comes to the "choose Sakura or others" choice, wher the former will go "I have to save both" and the latter will go "Preferably both, but if can't, whacha gonna do. Sakura all the way." mira-nyan said: Ruthlessness has nothing to do with decision making, tho. It's just her mentality - see Baita's post above. I'm not getting your point. That wasn't the argument. One of the things Saber is best at is masking her emotions - they're still there. Lol, no. One would need to think with no compassion before they act with no compassion. Either way, it stems off of mentality. Can't say there's a dictionary out there that says the word 'ruthlessly' can only be used in the context of actions. By your definition, Kiritsugu wasn't ruthless because he felt compassion for those who he killed so bad he wanted to use an omnipotent wish granting device to change one of the world's truths. Ruthlessness can't be tied to thoughts, because you can't act kindly and still be labeled ruthless. mira-nyan said: She joined the dark side. They're literally enemies. She held compassion for her literal enemies. But she "joined the dark side" too when Caster took control of her and Shirou and Rin became her literal enemies. Unless you're saying the corruption fundamentally changed her character, which demolishes your entire argument, Saber became ruthless to her allies. mira-nyan said: She wanted him to win so badly. She even used the magic word. This is against the person that she is supposedly ruthless to. For the third time, that's her showing affection. There's nothing she can do to him in this state, so she's not "letting" him do anything. If he didn't kill her when she can't fight back, she'll bash his head in once she regenerates. |
astroprogsDec 4, 2015 3:00 PM
| Oh boy, a Saber war. How i have missed those :D Sakura war when? |
astroprogs said: This is her showing affection as well. If Alter wanted him to win, there would've been no SLH ending. I actually agree with this. My point is the fact that she chose to give him pointers,explain him the situation clearly,not use her strongest weapon to give him a shot.Which means she isn't just focused on killing him,but she'll still do so because of her personal honour code or w/e. IMO,her desired outcome is the best ending for both Shirou and Sakura(and Rin),but she's still gonna make him work for it. This is of course ignoring that Sherou should have been paste the moment he started fighting with Alter,but fuck powerlevels. |
DamnThatsTheSpot said: astroprogs said: This is her showing affection as well. If Alter wanted him to win, there would've been no SLH ending. I actually agree with this. My point is the fact that she chose to give him pointers,explain him the situation clearly,not use her strongest weapon to give him a shot.Which means she isn't just focused on killing him,but she'll still do so because of her personal honour code or w/e. IMO,her desired outcome is the best ending for both Shirou and Sakura(and Rin),but she's still gonna make him work for it. This is of course ignoring that Sherou should have been paste the moment he started fighting with Alter,but fuck powerlevels. She was surprised multiple times throughout the fight and she flat out was unable to block an attack. I think it's less Alter "enabling" Shirou and more Shirou being more powerful than she thought. Her "You've grown strong, Shirou." made it clear to me how much she didn't expect him to fight like he did. Shirou WOULD'VE been paste had Alter been expecting such advanced techniques from him. |
| I wouldn't call a poor man's EMIYA "advanced" tehcniques,lol. And I never said she enabled him either,just that she didn't go all out and that she didn't fight like she normally would have.Which I don't think you've denied. Her "You've grown strong, Shirou." made it clear to me how much she didn't expect him to fight like he did. "You've always been strong" tho |
astroprogs said: Fate Shirou didn't grow his "living for others" mentality over night, neither did HF Shirou with his "I must do it for love". Both Shirous had these character traits, but they each chose to follow one or the other. And both Shirous are far from being opposites BTW. They're the same person until it comes to the "choose Sakura or others" choice, wher the former will go "I have to save both" and the latter will go "Preferably both, but if can't, whacha gonna do. Sakura all the way." More like; Choose Sakura or Others Fate Shirou - "I'll try to save both" HF Shirou - "I'll save Sakura" Opposite in the sense that HF Shirou is Sakura's hero, whereas Fate's Shirou is everyone's hero. By your definition, Kiritsugu wasn't ruthless because he felt compassion for those who he killed so bad he wanted to use an omnipotent wish granting device to change one of the world's truths. He didn't, tho. Ruthlessness can't be tied to thoughts, because you can't act kindly and still be labeled ruthless. You can. But she "joined the dark side" too when Caster took control of her No, that's completely different. Caster was using her against her will - Alter had a will, regardless of being Sakura's servant. and Shirou and Rin became her literal enemies. Unless you're saying the corruption fundamentally changed her character, which demolishes your entire argument, Saber became ruthless to her allies. They didn't, considering they both saw each other as allies. Did Shirou try to save Saber in UBW? Yup. Did Shirou try to save Alter in HF? Nope. There ya go. For the third time, that's her showing affection. There's nothing she can do to him in this state, so she's not "letting" him do anything. If he didn't kill her when she can't fight back, she'll bash his head in once she regenerates. 'How can a ruthless person show affection?' is what I'm trying to get through here. Affection = Care = Compassion = Pity. This. Is. English. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: OneTrueBaita said: Ah, best you buy one for yourself first though. Ruthless = having no compassion or pity for others. Saber Alter gets things done regardless of whoever is in her way. Aka ruthless. >The word 'pity' was explicitly stated in my quote above. >Pity and compassion are synonyms. I'll make sure to get you a high-class one, dw. Oh dear, looks like yours is a bit outdated. I never agreed that she showed pity or compassion. When she deals with Shirou, it is not pity, but rather simply apathy. And why she held back in SLH was because of underestimating him. She says at some point that she is surprised at how strong he is. |
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KingOfBait said: Oh boy, a Saber war. How i have missed those :D Sakura war when? ikr, and I was going to miss this if I didn't refresh the forum page on a whim :V |
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DamnThatsTheSpot said: I wouldn't call a poor man's EMIYA "advanced" tehcniques,lol. And I never said she enabled him either,just that she didn't go all out and that she didn't fight like she normally would have.Which I don't think you've denied. Her "You've grown strong, Shirou." made it clear to me how much she didn't expect him to fight like he did. "You've always been strong" tho They're advanced for him. Fair enough. It's more like: "You've grown strong, but i guess i should've expected as much from you Shirou". mira-nyan said: More like; Choose Sakura or Others Fate Shirou - "I'll try to save both" HF Shirou - "I'll save Sakura" Opposite in the sense that HF Shirou is Sakura's hero, whereas Fate's Shirou is everyone's hero. That doesn't make them absolute opposites. They're the same persona, but differ in one aspect of their life. mira-nyan said: He didn't, tho. Are you serious with this? Why did he participate in the war then if he didn't feel anything towards those he killed? Why did he bother with anything? mira-nyan said: You can. Give an example, please. mira-nyan said: No, that's completely different. Caster was using her against her will - Alter had a will, regardless of being Sakura's servant. How does her will make Shirou and Rin her enemies, also regardless of being Sakura's servant? mira-nyan said: They didn't, considering they both saw each other as allies. Did Shirou try to save Saber in UBW? Yup. Did Shirou try to save Alter in HF? Nope. There ya go. Shirou didn't try to save her because there's literally no saving her. Why didn't Alter see Shirou as an ally despite Saber choosing to help him before and after she was Rin's servant? mira-nyan said: 'How can a ruthless person show affection?' is what I'm trying to get through here. Affection = Care = Compassion = Pity. This. Is. English. A ruthless person can show affection by making it reflect on how they go about something, not if they should do that thing in the first place. People in the military, for example, may show respect to the human life but they execute their orders to the latter without mercy. They don't like it, but they do what needs to be done. |
| Fate>Zero>The rest is my choice. |
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| Fate/Zero is the obvious choice, and it is disgraceful that it's not a choice. Her descent into complete sorrow was most pleasing to observe. |
I am the Priest of my church Yuetsu is my body, and wine is my blood I have trolled over a thousand users Unknown to sympathy, nor known to apathy Withstood Shirou to eat Mapo Tofu Yet, my question will never be answered So as I rejoice, Unlimited Kirei Works! |
CaptainKirei said: Fate/Zero is the obvious choice, and it is disgraceful that it's not a choice. Her descent into complete sorrow was most pleasing to observe. ... What. Why are you here. No, more importantly, how are you still here...? I thought I purged you completely, but to think you'd return to face me...! |
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OneTrueBaita said: ... What. Why are you here. No, more importantly, how are you still here...? I thought I purged you completely, but to think you'd return to face me...! *chuckles* Do not presume yourself to be the harbinger of my fate, Emiya Shirou. I will remain until our father in heaven wishes me to leave. |
I am the Priest of my church Yuetsu is my body, and wine is my blood I have trolled over a thousand users Unknown to sympathy, nor known to apathy Withstood Shirou to eat Mapo Tofu Yet, my question will never be answered So as I rejoice, Unlimited Kirei Works! |
astroprogs said: They're advanced for him. Fair enough. It's more like: "You've grown strong, but i guess i should've expected as much from you Shirou". I mean she already knew he "defeated" Berserker,who's kind of a big deal.She even gave him a metaphorical pat on the back for that. So I still don't really see it. |
| Okita Souji is looking pretty damn fine these days. + she's acts like Lily We have a winner :P |
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WrongPriest said: Okita Souji is looking pretty damn fine these days. + she's acts like Lily We have a winner :P Close, but not quite, Priest of Lillies |
I am the Priest of my church Yuetsu is my body, and wine is my blood I have trolled over a thousand users Unknown to sympathy, nor known to apathy Withstood Shirou to eat Mapo Tofu Yet, my question will never be answered So as I rejoice, Unlimited Kirei Works! |
OneTrueBaita said: Oh dear, looks like yours is a bit outdated. I never agreed that she showed pity or compassion. When she deals with Shirou, it is not pity, but rather simply apathy. And why she held back in SLH was because of underestimating him. She says at some point that she is surprised at how strong he is. Who said she was pitying Shirou? Seriously, read the damn page. astroprogs said: mira-nyan said: More like; Choose Sakura or Others Fate Shirou - "I'll try to save both" HF Shirou - "I'll save Sakura" Opposite in the sense that HF Shirou is Sakura's hero, whereas Fate's Shirou is everyone's hero. That doesn't make them absolute opposites. They're the same persona, but differ in one aspect of their life. I literally just told you why I see them as opposites. Not once did I say absolute opposites. >.> mira-nyan said: He didn't, tho. Are you serious with this? Why did he participate in the war then if he didn't feel anything towards those he killed? Why did he bother with anything? More like, he thought without compassion, acted without compassion and then looked back and was like: "Holy crap, what have I done?" I agree that Artoria is ruthless in the sense that she wouldn't care for her enemies, but her allies? Nope. How does her will make Shirou and Rin her enemies, also regardless of being Sakura's servant? My point being that, in UBW, she struggled to get out of Caster's grasp. But in HF? Shirou didn't try to save her because there's literally no saving her. Nope. Why didn't Alter see Shirou as an ally despite Saber choosing to help him before and after she was Rin's servant? That's the key word; "choose". Hence my point of will. Saber, in UBW, chose to continue to side with Shirou. But, shadow aside, Alter did not. A ruthless person can show affection by making it reflect on how they go about something, not if they should do that thing in the first place. People in the military, for example, may show respect to the human life but they execute their orders to the latter without mercy. They don't like it, but they do what needs to be done. Then they're not ruthless, are they? WrongPriest said: Okita Souji is looking pretty damn fine these days. + she's acts like Lily We have a winner :P Get the fuck out before I smack you the fuck out. <.< |
The sun is a deadly laser |
mira-nyan said: OneTrueBaita said: Oh dear, looks like yours is a bit outdated. I never agreed that she showed pity or compassion. When she deals with Shirou, it is not pity, but rather simply apathy. And why she held back in SLH was because of underestimating him. She says at some point that she is surprised at how strong he is. Who said she was pitying Shirou? Seriously, read the damn page. Also, she let Shirou win/live a couple of times so, y'know... Well, Alter let him kill her in SLH. Seriously, reread the damned page. It's like I'm arguing with a concrete wall. |
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WrongPriest said: Okita Souji is looking pretty damn fine these days. + she's acts like Lily We have a winner :P ...! Normally I'd hate another Saber clone, but a Saber Lily clone...? YES! :3 |
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OneTrueBaita said: WrongPriest said: Okita Souji is looking pretty damn fine these days. + she's acts like Lily We have a winner :P ...! Normally I'd hate another Saber clone, but a Saber Lily clone...? YES! :3 Jeanne is way better, though. |
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BaitOfJustice said: OneTrueBaita said: ...! Normally I'd hate another Saber clone, but a Saber Lily clone...? YES! :3 Jeanne is way better, though. B-b-but the Saber Lily ribbon! And her hairstyle! And that innocent look! D: |
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OneTrueBaita said: mira-nyan said: Who said she was pitying Shirou? Seriously, read the damn page. Also, she let Shirou win/live a couple of times so, y'know... Well, Alter let him kill her in SLH. Seriously, reread the damned page. It's like I'm arguing with a concrete wall. I wonder what you missed? : BaitOfJustice said: OneTrueBaita said: ...! Normally I'd hate another Saber clone, but a Saber Lily clone...? YES! :3 Jeanne is way better, though. Yes. Arty > Jeanne > Lily = Alter = Okita = Gray > Nero. |
The sun is a deadly laser |
OneTrueBaita said: BaitOfJustice said: Jeanne is way better, though. B-b-but the Saber Lily ribbon! And her hairstyle! And that innocent look! D: Emiya, plz: Even Jeanne has her own Lily form  Who's your Seibah Lily now? |
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| Bah, this discussion has been going on for so long for something that's hardly that important. Oh well, I'll try to cover a few points and move on. mira-nyan said: More like, he thought without compassion, acted without compassion and then looked back and was like: "Holy crap, what have I done?" I agree that Artoria is ruthless in the sense that she wouldn't care for her enemies, but her allies? Nope. You need to reread/rewatch F/Z then. He acted without compassion because he was very compassionate (and idiotic). I mean, he wanted to save people for god's sake. Wanting to stop the killing was his reason for killing. He literally killed to lessen then the killing. The only moment Kiritsugu stops and has his "holy crap" moment is at final confrontation with AM where he realizes the consequences, not grow a consciousness. A king who will accept evil to be a good ruler will be ruthless to her allies if it was necessary. mira-nyan said: My point being that, in UBW, she struggled to get out of Caster's grasp. But in HF? Which should makes you think again about your sentiment of her wanting Shirou to win, shouldn't it? mira-nyan said: Then they're not ruthless, are they? They are. In the end of the day they did the killing. |
BaitOfJustice said: Emiya, plz: Even Jeanne has her own Lily form Who's your Seibah Lily now? Jeanne is love. Jeanne is life. That's not her lily form tho. |
astroprogs said: BaitOfJustice said: Emiya, plz: Even Jeanne has her own Lily form Who's your Seibah Lily now? Jeanne is love. Jeanne is life. That's not her lily form tho. I know, only trying to bait Emiya a bit :3 Good taste, btw |
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